Maren Morris and Luke Combs Discuss Accountability in Country Music: ‘We’ve All Got Healing to Do’

Maren Morris and Luke Combs joined NPR’s Ann Powers for a virtual panel discussion on accountability in country music on Wednesday (Feb. 17) during 2021 Country Radio Seminar.

In the panel that was initially to be centered around their fast-rising careers, both Combs and Morris agreed it was important to instead focus the conversation on accountability in the wake of Morgan Wallen being caught on video using the N-word, leading to a wave of ramifications within the industry including Wallen being suspended indefinitely from his record label and hundreds of radio stations across the country pulling his music out of rotation. “It’s important to say before we start talking that we are three white people talking about race among other subjects, and so necessarily, this is an incomplete conversation. At the same time, I am so glad that Luke Combs and Maren Morris pushed for a panel that was originally intended to focus on their careers to become one about personal, artistic and genre-wide accountability,” Powers introduced.

Throughout the nearly hour-long conversation, Morris and Combs spoke candidly about the need to be held accountable, what accountability looks like and areas they can evolve in order to make country music equitable to people of color. “There are things that need to change, and taking a moment to be aware of that and knowing that there are problems that exist is the biggest first step that I have taken,” Combs said of his participation in the panel. “I feel like I’m at this highly successful moment of my career and I couldn’t just sit back and not do anything. I want people to know that we as a genre care about this issue, and I think that’s why we’re here.” It wasn’t long into the conversation when Powers addressed Combs’ appearance in Ryan Upchurch’s 2015 video for his song “Can I Get An Outlaw” that features multiple uses of the confederate flag, including as a sticker on Combs’ guitar. The singer admitted that when the video was filmed, he was ignorant to the meaning behind the flag — which was used by the confederacy during the Civil War and is a symbol of racism and white supremacy — and issued a public apology during the panel for his association with it.

“There is no excuse for those images. I’ve grown a lot as a man and as a human being and as a citizen of the world,” he reflects. “I think that as a younger man, that was an image that I associated to mean something else, and as I’ve grown in my time as an artist and as the world has changed drastically in the last five to seven years, I am now aware how painful that image can be to someone else. No matter what I thought at the time that where to have meant or what it could possibly be interpreted as for myself, I would never want to be associated with something that brings so much hurt to someone else,” he continued. “This is something that hurts someone else that I was standing in front of, and knowing that is upsetting to me as a man because I want people to be happy, I want people to feel accepted. I want people to feel welcomed by country music and by our community.”

For Morris, accountability takes form by educating herself about how the history of country music is shaped by Black artists. “The Bones” hit maker shared that it’s been important for her to examine the true origins of the genre and how Black artists are integral to its foundation, such as musician Lesley Riddell who was hugely influential to the Carter Family band, his unique guitar technique influencing Maybelle Carter’s picking style, while blues musician Gus Cannon was a significant mentor to Johnny Cash. “I think doing the deep dive of history and knowing where this genre came to be is a really huge part of it,” Morris remarks about how to make country music more equitable, adding that the genre has made a habit out of holding its idols on a “massive pedestal.” “People that we idolize, they are our pioneers, they were not the pioneers. I think knowing the history of that is respectful to them, because it’s the truth.” Holding a mirror up to herself, the Texas native shared an example of how she was held accountable in the public sector when Nashville-based journalist and novelist Andrea Williams reached out to her on Twitter in 2020, applauding her for incorporating R&B on her 2019 album Girl with songs such as “RSVP” while also questioning why she created them with a team of white people. Though Morris’ knee-jerk reaction was to defend herself, she saw the truthfulness in Williams’ examination and used it as a catalyst for growth. “I think for me going forward, I have got to correct that and acknowledge that cultural appropriation, culture vulturing is a real thing,” she expressed. “I love country music so much. I have my version of it of what I make, and I think that going forward, I want to pay respect to the people that actually built it for me, and continue working and educating myself and trying to educate people around me. It’s about accountability of all of us, including me.”

For Combs, that accountability arises in the music. Combs released the unity-themed bluegrass song “The Great Divide” featuring musician Billy Strings in February 2021 and shared that it was written in summer of 2020 during the height of the Black Lives Matter movement and the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. As he was absorbing the intense news coverage, he channeled his thoughts into the song that features such lyrics as “But I’ve seen strangers love each other / Like a mother does her son / What we see ain’t only all that’s going on.” Combs says that “The Great Divide” was “written from a good place” and believes that using music to promote equality to one’s fanbase can be a powerful tool. “I think it starts with the music, and that’s a painful process as an artist because you do have people that want to cut you down and say ‘you don’t know what you’re talking about’ or ‘you should’ve said this instead of that,’” he analyzes. “But you just have to know where your heart is and you have to know that you’re doing it for the right reasons. I think that’s the thing that’s beautiful about being an artist is you push yourself and you create new boundaries for yourself. I think through the music is the perfect way to reach your fans.”

As the country music community moves toward a more equitable ecosystem, Morris says part of that process includes calling out harmful rhetoric and behaviors among peers, stating that those who say that the video of Wallen using the racial slur isn’t representative of Nashville is “diminishing” to the plight of Black artists who experience racism in the country music industry. She also says she appreciates Wallen’s apology video in which he urged his fans not to defend his actions. “It’s indefensible, and he knows that, we know that. All we can do so there isn’t an elephant in the room is say that out loud, hold our peers accountable, call them out,” Morris asserts.

Like many who are part of the country music “family,” from the artists and industry personnel to the loyal fans, Morris and Combs are committed to changing the future of the genre and making it a family that is accepting to all. “People can be changed. I think I’m a living, mouth-breathing example of it right here that people can change and people do change. It’s all about how do we move forward together,” Combs shares, adding that he believes “more than anything” that country music is family. “But I want it to be a family that everyone can feel like they’re a part of.” “I just think if you love something, you absolutely should call out the parts that are complicit and wrong so we can move forward in a healthier way. If you really love something, and this is a family and you love it, you love country music, call it out when it’s bad so you can rid the diseased part so we can move forward, all of us; all people of color, LGBTQIA+ and all feel like we are a part of this family,” Morris proclaims. “We’ve all got healing to do, and accountability is the first step of that. It’s got to get bad before it gets good, so I think that we’re on the road to a very hopeful place.”